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- Could I have a beer?
- Of course.
2
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- Thank you.
- I'll get you one.
3
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Why did you agree to meet me?
4
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It's an interesting story, and, um...
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I've got a different perspective.
6
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Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil!
7
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I spent 10 years undercover
in the far right.
8
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It was so much worse than I thought
it was going to be. Really.
9
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It was hardcore.
10
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The first years, especially,
it was like full-on Nazi,
11
00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:02,120
and people were, like,
12
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competing to be as radical as possible.
13
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And there was talk
about starting a race war.
14
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Yeah, the race war.
15
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We would come to a time
where we needed to, like, kill people.
16
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And we'd have hit lists.
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And then, like, you'd have, like,
the bomb makers themselves.
18
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In the 1990s,
there was trouble in the streets.
19
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A lot of tension.
20
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All someone had to do was light a match.
21
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But we didn't think anyone
was really gonna do it.
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But then one person did.
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This interview
is being tape-recorded.
24
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I am Detective Sergeant Terrence Boland,
25
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attached to the Anti-Terrorist branch
at New Scotland Yard.
26
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The other officer present is...
27
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Detective Constable Philip Johnstone
28
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from the Anti-Terrorist branch
of New Scotland Yard.
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Today is the 1st of May, 1999,
30
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and the time is now 18:13
according to my watch.
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You know,
the whole idea of us sitting here
32
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is to get to the truth.
33
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I'd just be the spark, that's all.
34
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The spark that would set fire
to this country.
35
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The thoughts,
they were getting stronger and stronger.
36
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I just couldn't get it out of my head.
37
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My destiny, you know?
38
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Eventually, I woke up one morning,
and I weren't thinking about it anymore.
39
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I was gonna do it.
40
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When were you intending to blow it up?
41
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Saturday.
42
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Half past five.
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♪ Red alert, red alert
It's a catastrophe ♪
44
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♪ But don't worry ♪
45
00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:28,520
♪ Don't panic ♪
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♪ Ain't nothing going on but history... ♪
47
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That beautiful morning
48
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everybody was everywhere,
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the sunshine, Brixton was bubbly,
50
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and people were doing
their own things.
51
00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,600
Peaches, plum, nectarines!
There are strawberries! Come on!
52
00:04:44,280 --> 00:04:46,920
We got Harrod's fruit
at Woolworth's prices!
53
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Brixton is amazing place to be.
54
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It's a historical place to be, you know?
55
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This is where all the Black people
56
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came to first in London.
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♪ Don't panic ♪
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People work together,
people live together.
59
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We knew people from all over the world.
60
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People selling everything and everywhere,
61
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getting their penny from where they can.
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Yeah, that's £2, darling.
63
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We got all the C...
every CD in the charts.
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Snoop Dogg...
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00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,000
Michael Jackson, Madonna.
66
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I actually had an adult film
made by Snoop Dogg.
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Yeah.
68
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- Pirate it... But I never watched it.
- We never sold that.
69
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- We did.
- Didn't think so. All right then.
70
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Sorta Robin Hoods.
In their eyes, we were Robin Hoods,
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00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,360
but not in Our Price's eyes anyway.
Our Price used to be over the road,
72
00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,840
and we used to say things like,
"This is my price, not Our Price."
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We had a lot of rhymes.
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00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,680
"Didn't fall off a lorry,
had to jump and get it myself."
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00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,560
"I don't care if you're in the game
or out the fucking game,
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half the shopping store prices."
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Really liked that. High-five.
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Don't leave it hanging.
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Coconut!
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Coconut, coconut, very fresh here.
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We were all there, a happy, lovely day.
82
00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,120
All of a sudden, my neighbor said to me,
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00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,840
"Wow, Talent, there is a bag here,
84
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and I can hear the noise."
85
00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,760
I said, "What sound are you hearing?"
He said, "Come and see."
86
00:06:11,840 --> 00:06:13,680
So, I came out of my stall,
87
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and it was going...
"Tinkum, tinkum, tinkum, tinkum, tink..."
88
00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,280
That was just the sound in that black bag.
89
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It could've been gold bullion.
It could've been loads of drugs.
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It could've been loads of money.
It weren't our bag.
91
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I opened it up, I had my face in it
92
00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,920
and then we're like, "It's a bomb."
93
00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,280
Then it's like, "Is it a bomb?"
I'm not a bomb expert,
94
00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,160
but I knew it was a bomb when I see it.
95
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And I'd never seen a bomb before.
96
00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:43,800
It was like a cartoon bomb, you know?
97
00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,080
- Yeah.
- With a clock, ding-a-ling, and all that.
98
00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,000
- So, you kinda just know.
- The alarm clocks with the old bells.
99
00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:50,000
With the bells on.
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00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:52,800
- The round face clock in a Tupperware box.
- It was like that.
101
00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,600
And outside... Coming out the box
was wires, and they were going...
102
00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,560
- Into a brown block... box.
- ...into a box full of nails.
103
00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:02,000
I said, "Call the police, call the police"
104
00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,760
because we don't know what was happening
or who kept the bag there,
105
00:07:05,840 --> 00:07:07,320
because there was nobody there.
106
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So, I walked back into my stall
by the time...
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to attend to my customers.
108
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I remember walking off,
going, "I ain't having none of this,"
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and then coming back.
110
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I remember the guy,
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like, people was going,
"Oh, don't be so stupid."
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"Put it in the bin, wheel it down there,
never happened."
113
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It was mad...
It was like no one knew what to do.
114
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No one would believe this story.
I've told this story many times.
115
00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,296
A crackhead took the bomb out of the bag
and nicked the bag.
116
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"Nah, you're joking me."
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"No way did it happen."
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"Yes, I swear down. It happened, man."
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- Even now there's crackheads...
- The crackhead come from this angle.
120
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He come kind of from, like...
121
00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:47,680
from around the stall, picked it up.
122
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At this time, we're going, "Leave
the fucking bag, you nutter. It's a bomb."
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Where he's touching the bomb,
everyone's going, "What are you doing?"
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Everyone can see the bomb now,
he took it out.
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It's there, it's blatantly there,
and he just gradually...
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00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,640
He just went like that...
...took the bag, and walked off up the road.
127
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He wanted the bag.
He just took the bag. I mean...
128
00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,800
The security guard phoned the police,
the police come over...
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As the police walked over I went,
"That's a bomb."
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Everyone move back, please! Thank you.
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00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,440
I don't remember landing
or getting thrown off my feet.
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- All I remember is getting off the floor.
- Exactly.
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Just getting off the floor.
134
00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:02,776
- I could hear you shout at me.
- Yeah.
135
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- He was screaming out my name.
- That was after.
136
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I found him on a stretcher
underneath, um, a bus stop.
137
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"I'm over here, Lee."
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I had to dodge...
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00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:21,040
under my trolley.
140
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I didn't think anybody survived,
141
00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,440
because it was like the whole building
collapsed on everybody.
142
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I got a little nail in the leg.
143
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I can't believe he didn't get hit.
He was in front. That's mad.
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00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,000
There's people with, like, limbs missing,
with nails in their head, I thought,
145
00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,960
"Why do I need to waste a stretcher
going to hospital with a nail?"
146
00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,480
- They cut his jeans up.
- It hit me in the leg.
147
00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,240
So, me mum just bought me these
for me birthday.
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"Don't cut my jeans! My mum got me these
for my birthday." I'll never forget that.
149
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There were glasses
all over the place.
150
00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:07,400
Because I wasn't hurt,
151
00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:10,400
I was grateful for that.
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Most people around there,
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there were lots of casualties.
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Everybody were running all over the place
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trying to find out
if their loved ones are safe.
156
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It was a horror in the day.
157
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Did you think
of the consequences?
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No.
159
00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,120
On the train,
I just kept imagining it exploding.
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I had to do it.
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I was like a robot.
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Did you think of the...
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the people?
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No.
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Not at all.
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00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,640
Thirty-nine people were injured,
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including a child with a four-inch nail
168
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embedded in their skull.
169
00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,560
The combination of burns
and blast injuries
170
00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,800
with severe shrapnel injuries
is a very difficult thing to deal with.
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00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:31,680
This bomb was designed
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to kill as many people as possible,
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and it is miraculous
that nobody lost their life on that day.
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00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,320
The whole design of a nail bomb
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is... is to do the maximum amount of harm
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to the maximum number of people,
to kill as many people as possible.
177
00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,560
Putting fragments of metal inside a bomb
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and... and then exploding,
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it's going to carry this metal
180
00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,040
300 miles an hour.
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00:12:08,680 --> 00:12:12,520
Nails are accompanied by anything else
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00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,440
that the blast wave picks up on the way.
183
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,640
And as it moves through different people,
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it can carry bits of one person
185
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:27,240
into another.
186
00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:32,000
So, you end up with very complex wounds
187
00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:33,960
where bits of somebody's leg
188
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can end up... end up in their chest,
189
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or they can end up in the chest
of the next person.
190
00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:46,360
We had never seen anything
quite like this before.
191
00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,280
You join me in the heart of Brixton
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00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,320
where the mood is one of rising anger
193
00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,040
against whoever was responsible
for the nail bomb.
194
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,120
Brixton is a very tense area.
195
00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,800
We just want to sort out
what happened Saturday,
196
00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:10,080
and we take it from there.
197
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,280
With me now is Mike Franklin.
198
00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,920
He's from the community police
consultative group.
199
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,920
Mike, I've seen today how high tensions
are running here.
200
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:22,960
Yes, uh, people are angry.
201
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,160
This was a... a... a cowardly,
callous attack on innocent people
202
00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,480
going about their lawful
daily business in Brixton on Saturday.
203
00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:32,800
Limbs amputated,
204
00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,040
shredding injuries
from... from... from nails.
205
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,400
People that... deafened, blinded.
206
00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,000
It wasn't a bomb,
a bit of a loud noise down the road.
207
00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,360
This was...
This-this ruined people's lives.
208
00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,640
Police were very, very careful
not to jump to conclusions.
209
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,520
You know, they wanted to say,
"We're keeping an open mind
210
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,720
about what the motivation of this is."
211
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:03,880
I thought it was a racist attack.
212
00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:05,480
Instinctively.
213
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,080
You live...
live down here and that happens,
214
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,120
and you normally have an idea.
215
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,360
And you had police officers
saying things to you like, you know,
216
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,480
"We wanna catch the bomber
as much as you do."
217
00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:20,560
And you'd say to them, "No, no, you don't,
because, like, where do you live?"
218
00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,520
"You're not living in an area
that's a target for this."
219
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,880
And the fact that the bomber
didn't kill anybody the first time around,
220
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,000
there's a possibility he might come back.
221
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,160
You know,
London had had bombings before.
222
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:41,360
The IRA campaigns, you know,
weren't that distant a memory.
223
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,960
This morning,
evidence taken from the wrecked building
224
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,760
is being minutely examined
by the bomb squad.
225
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,120
One theory is that the attack
226
00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,160
was a calculated act of defiance
by the IRA
227
00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:56,000
after the discovery in Southampton...
228
00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,200
But what we hadn't had experience of
229
00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:00,800
was a bomb of that type
230
00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,680
in the middle of a pedestrianized
shopping high street.
231
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:10,680
Annette, hi. Simon Foy here.
232
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,680
I was the young,
fresh-faced, inexperienced,
233
00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:15,840
quite aspiring,
234
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:17,600
probably slightly naive
235
00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,880
potential commander to Brixton Division.
236
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,920
It was the most challenging place
to... to work.
237
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,360
It was quite a tense atmosphere.
238
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,680
There was lots and lots of speculation
239
00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,200
about what was going on
and who was responsible for it.
240
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,920
A whole load of reasons
went through my mind.
241
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,120
We knew there was some gang violence
brewing up,
242
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,680
and there had been some shootings
fairly recently.
243
00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:52,240
Was it that?
244
00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:54,680
And people were sort of saying,
"Come on, then..."
245
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:56,960
You know,
"What are you gonna do about it?"
246
00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,800
Don't you think, sir, it is time
247
00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,760
to come clean and say
you have not got enough police officers
248
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,200
to do the job that is necessary
within this community?
249
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,360
People felt under-protected
and over-policed.
250
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:14,960
We'd all been through
the Brixton riots of '81.
251
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,120
Deaths in custody,
we'd been through all that stuff,
252
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,560
so a lot of us in the community
253
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:22,600
weren't that happy or comfortable
254
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,000
working with the police,
'cause we didn't trust them.
255
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,560
The police are harassing members
of our community through stop and search.
256
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,480
The police announced
that they're going to swamp our area
257
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,120
because of the bombing.
258
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,440
Police stop and search was
a real issue when I was young growing up.
259
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:40,880
Going into Brixton
on a Saturday afternoon with friends,
260
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:42,800
to record shops, things like that.
261
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,280
One of the things
that would happen most Saturdays
262
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,200
is you'd be stopped and searched
by the police.
263
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,720
The senior policeman
who runs this area was telling me
264
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:52,920
that the advice he'd give you lot
265
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,920
is to think seriously
about joining the police force.
266
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,080
He hasn't got enough...
267
00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:00,680
Friends got taken
to the police station,
268
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:01,920
come out with bruises,
269
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,920
and they'd tell you they got punched
in the face by a police officer.
270
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,760
That was... That was fairly normal.
271
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,440
Those were the things
that sowed the seeds of antipathy
272
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,120
between the community and the police.
273
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,120
Now to the day's other news.
274
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,000
Detectives investigating
yesterday's bomb explosion
275
00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:26,440
in Brixton in South London
276
00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,720
say they're keeping an open mind
about who planted the device.
277
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,680
The attack has not been linked
to a known terrorist group.
278
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:34,560
Were you here last Saturday?
279
00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:37,360
We've had lots of people
that have come forward,
280
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,800
uh, but no one has been able to tell us
281
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,080
anything particular, uh, about the bomber
at this moment in time.
282
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,320
No one really had a clue
of anything.
283
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,680
Was it a group of people?
Was it one person?
284
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:51,040
It created real fear.
285
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,640
The police were not really monitoring
the far right at that time.
286
00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,160
They say they were and people
were getting picked up every now and then,
287
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,880
but there was a mindset at the top
of the security services
288
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:04,760
saying that the far right
weren't a threat.
289
00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,840
They just wrote about these things,
they weren't going to carry it out.
290
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,880
You know, just a bunch of hooligans.
Why are we having to look at these people?
291
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,720
Searchlight was
a private intelligence operation.
292
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:24,040
We infiltrated and monitored
fascist groups.
293
00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:27,640
Rights for whites!
Rights for whites!
294
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,240
We'd been warning about it for years.
295
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,440
Terrorist movement
defending the last stand,
296
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:34,920
taking on the system.
297
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,120
Kind of an underground guerrilla army.
298
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,320
And it was all about terrorism.
All about killing people.
299
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,840
Sieg Hiel! Sieg Hiel!
300
00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:48,400
Sieg Hiel! Sieg Hiel! Sieg Hiel!
301
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,800
These were dangerous times,
and we wanted to stop these people.
302
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,920
The more we can find out
what they're up to, the more we can...
303
00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:59,360
stop what they're doing,
304
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:01,960
draw attention to what they're doing.
305
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,840
And then, we were contacted by someone
306
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:08,640
volunteering to get involved.
307
00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:10,240
Hello, Searchlight.
308
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,560
Said he was a young lad in his early 20s,
who was political,
309
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,200
very, very anti-racist.
310
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,760
Obviously, from my perspective,
the best thing he could do
311
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:22,560
was to go inside the far right.
312
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,280
And that's what he did.
313
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,760
Is it important
to still keep your identity a secret?
314
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:41,840
Yeah.
315
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,080
'Cause, like, these guys
really are dangerous.
316
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,440
And they still believe
that you're a Nazi?
317
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:51,200
Yeah.
318
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:54,880
Why did you do it?
319
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,640
I like being a spy. It's, um...
320
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:05,040
It's a buzz.
321
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,640
Can you start at the beginning,
Arthur?
322
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,640
In 1999,
I was undercover in the BNP.
323
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,000
For the new century,
we need a new ideal,
324
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,160
a new kind of politics.
325
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,200
The British National Party
was the law and order party.
326
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,080
We must stop immigration,
327
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,880
and we must help the immigrants
return home.
328
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,920
We projected ourselves
as being decent,
329
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,800
honorable, law-abiding citizens.
330
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,000
We were the good guys.
331
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,000
To build a movement,
which in the coming century
332
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,360
will put the "great" back into Britain.
333
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,240
But behind that,
334
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,920
you'd be going to, like, a BNP meeting
335
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,200
at a church hall or, like,
a back room of a pub.
336
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:56,040
Fuck off.
337
00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,400
And people were, like,
distributing hit lists,
338
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,200
overtly Nazi propaganda,
339
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:04,920
bomb manuals.
340
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,480
It was their dream that someone
would go out and blow up
341
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,240
someone they've suggested to target.
342
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,240
So, it was pretty extreme.
343
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,160
My assumption was
344
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,680
that they'd keep the Nazi thing
345
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,120
out of the way for new recruits,
346
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,400
but straight away they were saying
killing Jews was a good thing.
347
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,640
- First day?
- First day, yeah.
348
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,400
What did you think?
349
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,120
The thing was, I was shocked.
I was scared, but I was also excited.
350
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,480
And also, like, the fact
that they were so overtly Nazi,
351
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:45,680
that's more reason to carry on, isn't it?
352
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,280
Did you feel people
were checking you out?
353
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:50,800
Were they sussing you out?
354
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:52,320
Not really, no.
355
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,520
I guess they were thinking that
356
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,520
why wouldn't any white man
want to join their organization?
357
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,840
Obviously, the anti-fascists
had no idea I was on their side.
358
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,440
So, there were a few times I got whacked.
359
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,120
The worst time was actually...
It was, like, a girl,
360
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,200
and, um, like, she was smashing me
over the head with, I think, a hammer.
361
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:21,680
This was my reality.
362
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,040
What do you believe in, son?
363
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,360
We've got so many
poor white people in this country.
364
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:54,800
You get all this bullshit,
365
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,200
everything has to be equal,
everything this...
366
00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,000
It just puts white...
367
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,200
It demeans the white man
in this country now.
368
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:03,320
People like me.
369
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,480
So, you wanted
to put some bombs down?
370
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,280
Yeah, yeah. As many as I could.
371
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:12,920
One a week.
372
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,040
Why did you put nails in them?
373
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,640
It means they'd smash windows,
stick into people, and maim people.
374
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:29,720
And kill people.
375
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:08,760
The second weekend
in the capital,
376
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,240
it appears that ethnic communities
have once again been targeted
377
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,440
in an attack without any warning.
378
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,360
Brick Lane
is sealed off tonight,
379
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:17,840
and as well as a sense of shock,
380
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,600
there's also a sense of relief
that nobody was actually killed.
381
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,520
This strikes at the heart
of the... the Bengali community.
382
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,600
We have a problem,
which is tantamount to racial terrorism.
383
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,680
These things are... are outrageous,
that we will not tolerate,
384
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,480
and we'll make every effort
to find out who... those responsible.
385
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,360
They'll be prosecuted
and brought to justice.
386
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:39,480
No doubt about that.
387
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,720
With me is Siddy Shivdasani,
who's the editor of Eastern Eye newspaper.
388
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:47,560
We've received, uh, death threats
even today at our offices.
389
00:25:48,120 --> 00:25:50,320
We actually warned our readers last week.
390
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,040
if you live in a Black or Asian area
to be aware.
391
00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:54,960
Whilst politicians and the police
392
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,320
were dithering about
whether it was a racial crime,
393
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,080
in the meantime,
they were planning their next attack.
394
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,960
I was just trying
to get my message out there
395
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,120
of my personal frustration
with the police.
396
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,800
You know, try and do the right thing.
397
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,240
That's what I was trying to do then,
to do the right thing.
398
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,680
I was editor of a British Asian paper
at the time.
399
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,880
We faced a fair bit of racism.
400
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,240
Oh, you just got
used to it after a while,
401
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,320
and it was just a bit mindless, really.
402
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,760
But then we got this letter.
403
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,000
It was from some group called
the White Wolves.
404
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:47,040
I knew that an Asian area
was gonna be targeted next. I felt it.
405
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,360
But the police gave us no advice
to look for anything suspicious
406
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,560
or to be vigilant. Nothing.
407
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,640
We felt like they didn't give a fuck.
408
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,840
The homemade bomb
that exploded in South London on Saturday
409
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,040
seemed to have been an act of lunacy.
410
00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:07,920
Tonight, you can help, and this is how.
411
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,720
This is the quantity of nails
packed around the explosives.
412
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:13,080
Who bought this lot?
413
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,320
It wasn't a regular customer,
wasn't a regular builder.
414
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,800
Who came in
for this sort of quantity of nails?
415
00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:21,120
Alan Fry is head
of the Anti-Terrorist branch.
416
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,320
Alan, has it taken you any further,
what you've got so far? Do you know?
417
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:25,600
I'm... I'm sure it has,
418
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:30,760
although it's... it's too soon,
uh, to be able to, uh, be particular
419
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,800
in regard to a...
a particular line of inquiry.
420
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,480
Well, if there's any way that you think
you can help, please, please do.
421
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,000
There's a £10,000 reward. That may go up.
422
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,600
There weren't many
serial killers in this country,
423
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,720
let alone there'd never been
a serial bomber.
424
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,800
You know, people were afraid.
425
00:27:58,760 --> 00:27:59,920
People were afraid.
426
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,720
I was the senior investigating officer.
427
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,800
The responsibility was huge.
428
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,360
I had no experience
in... in terrorism investigation.
429
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,480
It brought the pressure to a different...
a completely different level.
430
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:22,680
Police are viewing
hours of tape
431
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,520
from closed-circuit TV cameras
432
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,880
in the hope that the person
who planted the device
433
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,360
will have been caught on film
and someone may recognize them.
434
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,320
The quality of the CCTV in 1999
435
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,400
wasn't great.
436
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,320
However, we started to find images
437
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,400
that... that might be the bomber.
438
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,160
There was someone
wearing a white baseball cap
439
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,560
who was carrying over their shoulder
440
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,880
what appeared to be a sports bag.
441
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:55,840
The only difficulty was
442
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:57,800
he wasn't recognizable.
443
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,520
We went to all sorts
of different agencies.
444
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,160
We even went to the Americans
and... and the military.
445
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,400
I mean, we sent it out there hoping,
446
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,240
uh, that... that someone could enhance it.
447
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,240
Um, they couldn't.
448
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:14,680
We had to just keep looking.
449
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,760
I started working with the police.
450
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,520
I mean, I did joint press conferences.
451
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,480
So, when they produced this picture
of an individual
452
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:27,440
who may be the bomber,
453
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,920
there was arguments with me
about whether it should be published.
454
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,880
Because it's grainy.
455
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,240
Um, it's an inconclusive picture.
456
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,840
My view was, "No. If that was a member
of somebody's family, they'd know it."
457
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,280
"Put it out now. Put it out today."
458
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:45,280
"We can't do that."
459
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,080
I said, "Well, while you're prevaricating,
460
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,480
the bomber is preparing the next bomb."
461
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,160
"It's urgent. Put it out now."
462
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,080
"Don't waste time."
463
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:57,720
"What are you gonna say to me
464
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,440
if a bomb goes off while we're here
having this conversation?"
465
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,240
"And I'm telling people
that you could've stopped it."
466
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,320
"Put the fucking picture out."
467
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:07,560
But nobody did.
468
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,801
Police were coming to us,
"Had we heard anything?
469
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,280
What was our view?"
470
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,080
We were asking people the same questions.
471
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,160
Who's going to be targeted next?
Are people gonna get killed?
472
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,960
By that stage, people were taking credit
for it around the country. White Wolves.
473
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,640
There were letters were being circulated
out of the East Midlands.
474
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,840
We went into overdrive.
I remember at the time, it was like
475
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,120
24/7 trying to figure out who could it be.
476
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,600
Drawing up lists, who-who... who could
have been doing this sort of thing?
477
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,400
No... no one had heard anything.
478
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,920
What were you doing
to try and find the bomber?
479
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,480
I was just finding people.
480
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,080
Pretending, first of all,
that I was happy,
481
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,680
and I was saying, like,
"Any idea who it is?"
482
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:07,760
That sort of thing.
483
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:09,880
But no one had a clue.
484
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:12,480
No one had a clue.
485
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,800
It's quite difficult to be in a situation
where you're... you're spying on people
486
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:23,120
and you... you try to switch that... that,
487
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,400
like, the voices off in your head,
488
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:27,800
but it's not easy.
489
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:31,200
I...
490
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,680
I became immune to... to the racism
491
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,240
and the fascism.
492
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,600
We'd... we'd... we'd look up to... heroes
493
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,880
within our movement,
like the Waffen SS,
494
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:46,680
Hitler, of course.
495
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,400
For a racist,
it was an inspiring environment.
496
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,560
Did you feel yourself
being brainwashed?
497
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,080
I'd love to say I thought
it was all bullshit.
498
00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:00,920
But...
499
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:02,800
Yeah, definitely.
500
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:04,880
Yeah, they indoctrinated me. Yeah.
501
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,400
It was like you...
502
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,680
Yes, I doubted the Holocaust happened.
503
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,440
And I was even thinking
504
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,520
that maybe I was naive
505
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,640
if I followed the mainstream view
506
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:24,280
that it did happen.
507
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,400
If they can get inside my head,
508
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,360
imagine what it was doing to other people.
509
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:34,880
Come on!
510
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,600
When you're ready!
511
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,360
Rights for whites! Rights for whites!
512
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,440
When you were in that bubble,
513
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,480
you were with like-minded people.
514
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,480
They had the same grievances as you,
515
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,520
they had the same background as you,
a lot of them.
516
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,800
You were, like, insulated from reality.
517
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:01,480
I was part of it back then.
518
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,160
This is our country!
519
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,400
Our own race traitors,
520
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,240
who are trying to destroy this country,
521
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,120
they are the enemy!
522
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,120
A guy called John Tyndall
was our leader.
523
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,880
He was a very high-profile
right-wing politician at the time.
524
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,320
Tyndall was a magnet for misfits,
525
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,280
lunatics, and losers, really.
526
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:29,240
That's what he wanted,
527
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,600
'cause he could... he could control 'em.
528
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,960
He would never say,
"Go out and blow people up,"
529
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,400
or "Attack people,"
but he was very clever with words.
530
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,640
His speeches were quite rousing,
you know.
531
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:50,840
We will fight on, work on,
march on, and struggle on
532
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,200
to build a country for which they died
533
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,360
and give Britain back
to the British people!
534
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,280
We used to go
to different meetings,
535
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,080
and they were always in pubs.
536
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,040
And so, you had all these
violent young men,
537
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:10,760
intoxicated,
538
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,560
being told that they're being threatened
by these hordes of immigrants,
539
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:20,840
and they're gonna murder you in your beds
and rape your wife and eat your children.
540
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,880
After the meeting,
there would always be violence.
541
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,560
Come on then, you wanker!
542
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,720
Are you all right? Can I get vitals?
543
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,800
You've got this rage
inside you all the time, and...
544
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,560
anger and frustration,
545
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:45,560
and then it just...
546
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,680
You can... you can spew it all out.
You know what I mean?
547
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:50,400
You can vent it on someone else.
548
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,960
I remember after one particular meeting,
549
00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:58,720
I had a transit van.
550
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:01,320
It toured the area
551
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,160
and dragged Black people off the street.
552
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,120
Kidnapped them, basically,
553
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:11,640
and they were subjected
to some pretty awful violence.
554
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,440
If the BNP didn't have that meeting
in the pub...
555
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,480
and tell everyone that
they were under threat and in danger,
556
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,120
they wouldn't have gone out
attacking people.
557
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,600
You know, they-they incited them to do it,
and then they'd wipe their mouth
558
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:30,880
and go home to his...
559
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,040
million-pound pile in Surrey
or wherever it was and...
560
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,320
we'd go back to our shitholes
in Stockwell, you know what I mean?
561
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:39,320
Job done, then.
562
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,040
That's... that's how it happens.
563
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,840
That's how they manipulate people
and use people, and...
564
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,960
Yeah, I've done some pretty...
pretty shit things, really.
565
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:51,200
Really bad things.
566
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,760
When did this come
into your head that you wanted to do this?
567
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,280
Oh, don't know. A few years ago.
568
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,120
'Cause you're only 22 now, right?
569
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,400
Yeah, so I was about 20.
570
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,640
You've heard in the newspaper, no doubt,
571
00:36:19,720 --> 00:36:23,080
and it's been printed, about this White...
White Wolves organization.
572
00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:27,080
I don't know who they are.
I-I don't know who they are.
573
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:28,560
I-I don't care who they are.
574
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,280
So, they would have
no idea who you are?
575
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,240
No. No idea at all.
576
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,720
So their claims
are purely fictional?
577
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:36,800
Made up.
578
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,760
Just trying to, you know, take my glory.
579
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,120
My aim was political.
To cause a racial war in this country.
580
00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:52,120
What does that mean?
581
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,360
There'll be the uprising
and all that.
582
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,120
You know, the racial violence
in the street, whatever.
583
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,160
What was your intention at that point?
584
00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:04,040
I was thinking of a target
I was gonna blow up.
585
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,560
Had you decided at this time
where you were going to put the bomb?
586
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:08,880
Yeah.
587
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:09,960
Soho.
588
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,000
Two bomb attacks in London
589
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,840
have understandably led to fears
in the capital that there is more to come.
590
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,400
Racists, we are told,
were probably behind the bombs,
591
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,840
and they probably
intend to strike again.
592
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,960
♪ Alice from above ♪
593
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:39,120
♪ Has a face that makes you
Want to fall in love ♪
594
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:40,840
♪ Fall in love ♪
595
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,720
♪ All I wanted is a... ♪
596
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,360
Nobody knew which community
was gonna be targeted next.
597
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,800
Would it be the Chinese community?
598
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,840
Would it be the Jewish community?
599
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:56,840
There was a lot of discussion.
600
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:01,600
But the early conversations
were all about race, all about ethnicity.
601
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,520
Nobody was thinking about, uh, the fact
602
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,640
that this could go wider
to the gay community.
603
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,880
The visible part
of the gay community was in Soho,
604
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,400
and probably Old Compton Street.
605
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,440
You could kind of barhop
606
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,560
from one bar or one gay venue to another.
607
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,800
They were thriving, they were energetic,
608
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:31,480
they were full of life.
609
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:34,480
It felt very free.
610
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,560
It felt as if you could be in those spaces
and be yourself.
611
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,520
When the second bomb went off,
things became very clear very quickly.
612
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,360
This was somebody who hated difference.
613
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,240
They hate people who are different,
614
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,400
who... who don't fit their perception
of normal society.
615
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,080
We began having conversations
with the police at quite a senior level.
616
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,640
We were told that it was a...
a racial issue.
617
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:14,840
And we raised our concerns,
and it was met with some skepticism
618
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,120
and some disbelief at Scotland Yard.
619
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,600
So it was really pretty much down to us
620
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,800
to ring round the managers
of the key venues,
621
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,680
the pubs, the clubs, the coffee bars,
the restaurants, to say...
622
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,320
"This could come to us.
Please be aware. Be vigilant."
623
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:42,440
We will defeat the people
who are responsible for these bombs.
624
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:43,560
We will catch them.
625
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,320
We don't have specific corroboration
for any particular group,
626
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,200
uh, who are responsible
for these outrages,
627
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:56,360
but clearly, it is...
it is most likely to be, um,
628
00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:00,320
far-right extremists
who are targeting minority groups.
629
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,480
Everyone was kind of blind to it,
'cause no one knew where it was coming.
630
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,680
But everyone was expecting
for it to happen.
631
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,520
I'd meet Arthurin places
where we thought
632
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,520
other people who knew him
or knew me wouldn't be.
633
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,640
Tourist hotels in London,
634
00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:19,440
meet outside London.
635
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,640
He understood what his mission was.
636
00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:24,640
And he understood
that he had to stop them.
637
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,520
I'd meet my contact
638
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:31,520
and go through all these names
of people I knew already...
639
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,560
and mentioned this guy
640
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,280
who I'd referred to as "Dave from Barking"
641
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,080
because he... he mentioned
that was where... where he was living.
642
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,800
We were a similar sort of age,
643
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:47,800
bonded a little bit,
644
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,560
talked about music
645
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:56,920
and the fact he didn't like people
with brown faces very much.
646
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,680
I last saw him at the annual rally
647
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,720
when, um, he was acting like a-a steward.
648
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,640
He had, like, a steward's armband.
He stood next to John Tyndall.
649
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,840
I think Tyndall got quite badly beaten up
by anti-fascists.
650
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,960
After that, Dave just, like, disappeared.
651
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,240
And I didn't think anything of him.
652
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,880
After Saturday at Brick Lane,
653
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,440
I got a taxi to Soho to do a bit of recon.
654
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,160
Roughly what time
would this have been?
655
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:46,680
Must've been about 7:00.
656
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,800
Right. So, what was
your intention at that point?
657
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,080
I was thinking what pub
I was gonna blow up.
658
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:57,800
I went down to Old Compton Street.
659
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,000
I wanted to make sure it was the right pub
'cause I was after a queer one.
660
00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:04,720
A gay one or whatever you wanna call it.
661
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,000
Have you got a problem
with gays, then?
662
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,000
- Yeah, I have.
- Why?
663
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:15,400
I'm just very homophobic.
664
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,480
That's pretty... You know, I just hate 'em.
665
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:19,400
Why?
666
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,480
I don't know. You just do.
667
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,160
There must be a reason.
668
00:42:23,240 --> 00:42:25,200
I got a thing about homosexuals.
669
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,280
I just don't like talking about it,
you know what I mean?
670
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,560
I chose the gays 'cause I hate them.
671
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,640
You know? I mean, that was personal.
672
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,480
The tape doesn't pick this up,
but when we speak to you about the gays,
673
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:50,440
you... you have to close your eyes,
and you seem quite intense there, David.
674
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:52,240
Yeah. I just don't like them.
675
00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:56,040
I just don't like them, yeah?
676
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,080
I'm completely straight.
Don't worry about that.
677
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,240
No, no, no.
It's not a problem, but it upsets you.
678
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,680
You know? I don't know why it upsets you.
679
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,320
It upset you enough to plant a bomb.
680
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:15,200
But I don't know why.
681
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,600
After the two
Saturday afternoon bombings in London,
682
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,040
police forces around the country
are warning people
683
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,520
who could be potential targets
to be vigilant this weekend.
684
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,280
Detectives fear the Brick Lane
and Brixton bombs
685
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,320
could be the start of a nationwide
racist terror campaign.
686
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,200
Police say they don't want to spread panic
687
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,840
but want everyone to be aware
of the possible threat
688
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,320
of another bomb this bank holiday weekend.
689
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:18,200
There were two things
that drew attention to the suspect.
690
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,360
Instead of looking at thousands of people,
691
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:26,720
your job is to look at all those thousands
of people who might be carrying a bag.
692
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:34,840
And then once that bag was found,
then there was the hat he was wearing.
693
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,320
But there was hundreds and hundreds
and hundreds and hundreds of hours.
694
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,080
At first, the images were so bad
you couldn't tell who it was.
695
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:59,640
But then we started to find other images
that were clearer.
696
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,680
The guys were straight down at my office.
"Boss, you've gotta see this."
697
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:09,960
I distinctly remember that moment.
698
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,560
Here's the image. This is the bomber.
699
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:21,840
Before rush hour,
it was on posters at stations
700
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,160
and other key locations
across the capital.
701
00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:26,440
The images have been posted
on the internet
702
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,400
and are being sent
to every police force in the country.
703
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,440
Even though the police
suspect he may be behind the bombing,
704
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,120
if he's watching this broadcast
705
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:38,120
and he honestly thinks he's innocent,
then he should come forward.
706
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,160
I heard on the radio
that you had pictures of me.
707
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:45,080
And at first, I thought,
"That's it. I'm caught."
708
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:49,960
So, I've immediately gone straight home,
and I've realized I ain't been caught yet.
709
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,920
I built my device, set the time,
I packed it all up.
710
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,760
Waited till about half past four,
caught a taxi up to Soho.
711
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,960
What time did you set
the timer up for the Soho bomb?
712
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:07,120
Six thirty.
713
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,000
It was my day off.
714
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,360
I think I'd been to a gallery,
and I was on my way home.
715
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:39,240
And it was a Friday,
716
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,640
beginning of a... a holiday weekend.
The weather was glorious.
717
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,840
I think maybe it was late afternoon.
718
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:52,760
There were people finishing work,
there was an... an air of gaiety
719
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:54,840
and, you know,
it was like a holiday weekend.
720
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:56,160
There was an atmosphere.
721
00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:00,040
And I'd been into the Admiral Duncan
once before, I think.
722
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,120
Um, didn't really remember it
all that well,
723
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,320
and I was passing by, and I thought,
724
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:06,600
"Fancy a half a beer."
725
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,680
It was a small pub. Narrow.
726
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,640
And it-it was sort of beginning
to be buzzing.
727
00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:17,920
You know?
And people were arriving all the time.
728
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:24,880
It was a Friday afternoon.
729
00:47:25,720 --> 00:47:32,400
And I had heard the police
had identified footage from Brixton.
730
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:34,880
I saw copies of the Evening Standard.
731
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:40,040
Pretty much straight away, I thought
that it might be Dave from Barking.
732
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:45,120
And then my contact at Searchlight phoned,
733
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,560
and I just said,
734
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:50,800
"It could be David Copeland."
735
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:54,880
We started going through
our own records,
736
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,600
all the stuff that Arthur
had told us over the years,
737
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,600
and, you know, there we found
Copeland's name
738
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,560
in a number of different meetings,
a number of different events.
739
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,640
So a colleague of mine
contacted the police.
740
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,000
Looked at my watch.
I still had, what?
741
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:20,320
An hour to go before the ignition?
742
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:23,560
I sort of waited by the telephone box,
743
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,000
making it look
lik e I was waiting for the phone.
744
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:29,840
I went in there about I'd say ten...
745
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:31,200
ten to six.
746
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:34,120
Ordered a drink.
747
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,200
When I was in there, I seen the people
I was gonna maim and kill.
748
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:41,600
I didn't feel joy about it.
749
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:42,960
I didn't feel sad.
750
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:45,920
I just didn't feel anything.
751
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,560
And how long were you here for
at the end of the bar, you said?
752
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,200
Fifteen minutes. Twenty minutes.
753
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,560
Is that right?
You had a glas s of Coke or something?
754
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:02,240
A glass of Coke.
755
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:06,640
I left it there and I asked one of the men
in there if there was a bank nearby.
756
00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:09,360
And this is just as you left,
was it now?
757
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:10,800
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
758
00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:15,160
How many people
were actuall y in the public house
759
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,960
when you actually put the bag down?
Do you remember?
760
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,920
Between 15 to 20 people.
761
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,480
I struggled to actually
get out of the place.
762
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,840
I had to go around people
and ask them to move.
763
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,320
I knew that people would be killed,
but I had to do it.
764
00:49:44,720 --> 00:49:46,600
The noise level was getting louder.
765
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:49,080
Ordered the beer.
766
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:52,120
I don't know whether I even sipped it.
767
00:49:57,880 --> 00:49:59,000
And then...
768
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:12,680
I couldn't hear anything.
769
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:15,840
Something's really strange.
770
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:17,240
I felt really strange.
771
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:19,640
Everything switched off.
772
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:23,000
I don't feel right.
773
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:29,400
And I think that I was still
leaning on... on the bar.
774
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:35,920
And I looked across to where the optics
and... and... and things...
775
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,240
and the bottles should have been,
and there was nothing.
776
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,760
Just darkness, wisps of smoke,
777
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:44,120
and nobody.
778
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,200
I-I couldn't see anybody,
couldn't hear anything.
779
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,200
And I can remember turning
780
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,880
to... to look to see what was going on,
781
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,640
and then the next memory is of being...
782
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,280
looking up at a... a young woman,
783
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:05,640
and I could see her mouth opening
and closing, screaming, I think.
784
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,560
I learnt later, if you're in a bomb,
your eardrums get blown.
785
00:51:43,240 --> 00:51:46,040
I think that I was dragged outside
and there was a guy
786
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:50,160
who was with me and...
who said that I was talking to him.
787
00:51:50,240 --> 00:51:52,320
I could tell him where I came from.
788
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:57,080
I don't remember any of that.
None. None of it.
789
00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:08,160
I was taken to hospital.
790
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:12,400
They didn't know whether I was gonna live.
791
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:20,800
They had me on some pretty strong drugs.
792
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,800
And I remember, sort of, dreaming
and things like that
793
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:29,480
while they were altering, um,
the level of... of pain medication.
794
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:34,840
I was having this dream about being
in a nightclub, and everybody was rats.
795
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:38,720
And the rats were dressed
as human beings.
796
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,440
There were rats in the wall.
I could hear them.
797
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:46,840
There was a... a biplane.
798
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,640
You know, one of those planes
that goes onto the water?
799
00:52:49,720 --> 00:52:52,800
That arrived at the... at the nightclub.
800
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:55,600
Rats, rats, and more rats.
801
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:19,280
I learned later that, um, Copeland
had let his rats...
802
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:20,480
He had pet rats.
803
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:26,080
And he let them, um, run across the stuff
that he was packing the nail bombs with.
804
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:30,680
And, um, so, from what I can tell,
805
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:32,960
the guys that were
in the same hospital as me,
806
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:34,800
um, we all got these weird infections,
807
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,080
and they couldn't figure out
what was wrong with us.
808
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,760
And it was all because
he let these rats...
809
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,160
you know, like, urinate and defecate
810
00:53:43,240 --> 00:53:45,760
all over whatever it was
that he was jamming in there.
811
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,880
As these patients
came in one at a time,
812
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:10,080
we began to realize
just how serious this was.
813
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:13,560
They had quite horrific injuries.
814
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,760
This was like a war scene.
815
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,880
Patients came in with extensive burns,
816
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:23,280
unconscious,
817
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:26,400
one after another.
818
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:38,520
And perhaps the most difficult thing
I've had to do in my career
819
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:43,160
was dealing with a patient
who had come in unconscious,
820
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,680
and he remained unconscious
for a few days.
821
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,880
As he came round gradually,
822
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,360
we realized that we had to speak to him
823
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:59,040
to give him the worst possible news.
824
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:03,880
Two friends had both died
825
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:10,560
and tragically his wife and unborn child
826
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,040
had also been killed.
827
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:38,440
It's been revealed that a pregnant woman
and the best man at her wedding
828
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:40,840
were among the three people killed
in the explosion.
829
00:55:42,240 --> 00:55:44,200
Andrea Dykes was killed almost instantly.
830
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:47,760
Her husband, Julian,
is in a critical condition in hospital.
831
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:06,920
I was at home when I heard.
832
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:11,080
It was just complete shock.
833
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:14,960
And helplessness.
834
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:21,160
You know, we were...
835
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,040
We were, uh, close,
836
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:27,120
um, in terms of...
837
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:31,280
You know, we felt we were getting
very close to catching the perpetrator.
838
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:37,600
We'd tracked down a... an address
that he was possibly living at.
839
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,360
Honestly, I wanted to get caught.
840
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:56,440
Why?
841
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:00,440
I'd be famous in some sort of way.
842
00:57:01,240 --> 00:57:03,320
And what does fame
mean to you?
843
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:05,960
It's existence.
844
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:09,680
What's that mean?
I-I don't understand.
845
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:13,920
If no one remembers who you were,
you never existed.
846
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:15,960
All right.
847
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:21,920
It would be remiss of us not to ask...
848
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:24,080
why you did it?
849
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,920
To spread fear,
resentment, and hatred.
850
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:35,560
I am a Nazi.
851
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:37,280
I admit that.
852
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:39,480
Yeah.
853
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:44,640
David, that is the buzzer
854
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:46,400
indicating that the tape
is about to finish,
855
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:48,560
so we will finish at this moment in time.
856
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:56,320
Yes, ladies and gentlemen,
857
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,320
in the early hours
of Saturday the 1st of May,
858
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:03,320
unarmed officers from
the Organized Crime squad Flying Squad
859
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:07,400
arrested a 22-year-old man
in Cove, Hampshire.
860
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:18,400
The man is not a member
861
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:22,080
of any of the groups
which have made claims of responsibility
862
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:23,240
for the bombings.
863
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:26,720
It is understood that he was working alone
864
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:28,480
for his own motives.
865
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:56,360
The start
of David Copeland's murder trial
866
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,080
was attended by more
than three dozen of his victims
867
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:01,280
and the relatives of those he killed.
868
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:04,760
The 24-year-old defendant
denie s three murder charges
869
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:06,800
due to diminished responsibility.
870
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:12,400
Copeland wouldn't be
the first person
871
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:16,200
who thought he could get away with murder
by claiming he's mad.
872
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:23,240
I've got a massive problem with people
873
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:25,800
who harm women or children.
874
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:28,640
And so when Copeland happened...
875
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:30,920
For... He's murdered that woman,
876
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:33,800
and he's murdered an unborn child.
877
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:37,240
You know, I was never gonna let him
get away with it.
878
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:42,640
His only option really
879
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:45,520
was to plead diminished responsibility,
880
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:49,960
so I needed him to confess
that he was perfectly sane.
881
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:57,800
But these days, you've got
these pedophile hunters on the internet,
882
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:00,840
and they pretend to be a male or a female,
883
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:03,360
and a pedophile
will get in touch with them,
884
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:06,480
they'll arrange to meet,
then they give the evidence to the police.
885
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:09,000
Well, if you like, before the internet,
886
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:12,880
um, I was doing
a different version of that.
887
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,520
Dear David, you don't know me,
888
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:19,120
but I've been hearing about you
in the news.
889
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:23,200
How can they call people monsters and evil
without even knowing them?
890
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:27,080
I believe everyone is innocent
until proven guilty.
891
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:30,960
Anyway, I hope you don't mind me
writing to you.
892
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:32,480
Patsy.
893
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:36,360
Dear Patsy,
thank you for your letter.
894
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:41,360
I'm 5 foot 8, 23 with brown hair.
895
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:45,160
My mum says I'm handsome,
but I don't know.
896
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:47,040
I can't picture what you look like.
897
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:48,920
Please send me a picture.
898
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:53,640
With Copeland,
he's gonna wanna be in control,
899
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:56,800
so I invented this girl
called Patsy Scanlon.
900
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:02,280
Patsy was like these girls you see
901
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:06,120
in the 1940s propaganda films.
902
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:09,880
You know, she's lithe, blonde, beautiful.
903
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:13,480
Someone who'll do what they're told
without question.
904
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:15,520
Someone who's vulnerable.
905
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:18,040
Totally airhead, do you know what I mean?
906
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:25,160
I knew he'd go for that
one million percent.
907
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:26,280
I just knew it.
908
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:30,760
For the survivors,
909
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:33,160
it was a day of harrowing evidence.
910
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:36,280
As the horrific injuries
caused by the explosions were described,
911
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:38,920
several people were visibly distressed.
912
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:43,560
The trial was about
whether he was mad or bad,
913
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:46,760
and he had a barrage of lawyers.
914
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:50,360
He had, you know, more on... on his side
915
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:52,960
than what were on the other side,
than the... than the Crown.
916
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:57,600
David Copeland
pleaded not guilty to murder,
917
01:01:57,680 --> 01:01:59,880
but said instead he was guilty
of manslaughter
918
01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:01,800
because of diminished responsibility.
919
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,760
It's now for the jury to decide
his state of mind.
920
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:08,040
Essentially, what I needed
was a smoking gun.
921
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:11,040
I needed him to say, you know, something
922
01:02:11,120 --> 01:02:13,640
that showed he was playing a game
with the doctors,
923
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:16,200
but I didn't have a lot of time
to get him.
924
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:17,800
Dear David,
925
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:20,600
I hope you're not too worried
about your trial.
926
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:23,040
It must be a stressful time for you.
927
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:24,920
Dear Patsy,
928
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:27,920
you are a very attractive young lady.
929
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:31,640
Oh, you know.
930
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:35,440
My plan was to build Copeland up.
931
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:37,640
By doing that, get him to open up.
932
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:40,640
I hope you're feeling confident
and thinking positive thoughts.
933
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:42,240
It feels strange being famous.
934
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:43,760
Dear David,
935
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:46,280
I saw your picture in the papers
the other day.
936
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:48,640
Your mum is right.
You really are handsome.
937
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:49,960
Dear Patsy,
938
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:51,600
I can't get you out of my mind.
939
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:54,600
All I do is dream about you
and when we can finally meet.
940
01:02:55,440 --> 01:03:00,960
And he signed that "Love, Dave,"
which was an escalation of things, really.
941
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:05,120
The whole mood
of Copeland's letters changed.
942
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:06,560
Dear Patsy...
943
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:09,320
I had a...
a flurry of letters at that point.
944
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:13,120
Your letters are the only things
that are keeping me going here.
945
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:15,640
I lie on my bed at night
and think of you.
946
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:18,120
Promise me, Patsy,
you'll never forget about me.
947
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:21,880
- Hope I'll hear from you soon.
- Then, finally, I had him.
948
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:24,280
Dear Patsy, this place is a joke.
949
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:25,560
So are the doctors.
950
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:26,920
They think they're clever,
951
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:28,960
but they're as stupid
as the fools in here.
952
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:32,240
Things are not looking too bad
for my trial.
953
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:34,680
I can't believe that I fooled
all the doctors.
954
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:38,840
"I can't believe that I have fooled
all the doctors."
955
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:47,240
The jury looked at the correspondence
in its entirety.
956
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:51,880
Saw it as I saw it.
Saw it as the psychiatrist saw it.
957
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:54,680
There's absolutely nothing wrong with him.
958
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:02,560
Copeland was showed photographs
of these horrific injuries
959
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:05,840
and all the misery and pain he'd caused,
960
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:08,400
and not once did he show
a sign of emotion.
961
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:12,840
But then when the prosecutor read out
962
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:15,920
that, um, the girl he wanted to marry
963
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:20,680
was actually a... an hairy-arsed bouncer
from Essex called Bernie,
964
01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:24,200
you know, he put his head in his hands
and slumped in the dock.
965
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:26,120
You know, his... his world ended.
966
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:31,840
David Copeland, the young fanatic
967
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:35,320
who worshiped Adolf Hitler
and planted nail bombs across London,
968
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:38,800
is in Broadmoor tonight
starting six life sentences.
969
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:43,800
He was convicted of murdering three people
and injuring nearly 150 others
970
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:46,880
in a bombing campaign
that targeted Blacks and homosexuals.
971
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:48,960
The jury rejected his plea
972
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:51,400
that he wasn't responsible
for his actions.
973
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:08,720
For two of the survivors,
a poignant moment outside the Old Bailey.
974
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:13,080
David Copeland has not achieved his aims
of fame and power.
975
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:18,200
Today's verdict prove he...
proves he is a dangerous, pathetic nobody
976
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:19,800
who is now where he belongs.
977
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:26,920
- Thanks, fellas.
- Thanks.
978
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:38,320
Everybody was saying, "Come on,
we'll go out for a drink" and "Yeah."
979
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:43,600
And I can remember thinking...
"Nothing to celebrate here. Really."
980
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:45,400
Oh, beautiful.
981
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:48,680
To new beginnings.
982
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:55,000
I've always had this real
overwhelming sense of, um,
983
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:56,320
what a bloody waste.
984
01:05:57,120 --> 01:05:59,760
What a waste of human life.
985
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:01,800
His included.
986
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:05,320
'Cause he'll never get out,
he'll never be any use to anybody.
987
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:09,200
And what he's done
to all these people, you know?
988
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:11,080
Hundreds and hundreds of people.
989
01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:21,760
I wish...
990
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:24,680
I wish we'd been able to stop it.
991
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:30,800
Just, like, stop those people
from being killed and injured.
992
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:35,680
So, there's some sort of guilt
that exists, is there?
993
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:38,360
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely. Definitely.
994
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:40,800
Definitely.
995
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:43,240
I think about that a lot.
996
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:49,560
I thought I'd got over it.
And then it came back.
997
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:55,560
I, you know, well...
998
01:06:56,320 --> 01:07:00,480
Joining the BNP, I wanted, like,
the excitement of, like, being a spy and...
999
01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:05,280
all that, and, like,
taking on, like, the bad people.
1000
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:08,480
But when something on that scale happened,
1001
01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:13,360
I wish... I wish we'd been able
to stop what happened sooner.
1002
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:21,560
Yep.
1003
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:28,000
Arthur was someone
who was motivated by doing something good.
1004
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:33,560
At the time, there was a reward.
There was a reward put out by the police.
1005
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:36,080
Seventy-thousand pounds
for his identification.
1006
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:38,360
Arthur was never interested in a penny.
1007
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:43,400
And even now. I mean...
There were some people in his family,
1008
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:46,960
only on the 20th anniversary
of the London nail bombings
1009
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:50,920
that some of his family found out
what... what he had done.
1010
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:55,080
That he wasn't a Nazi after all.
1011
01:07:58,760 --> 01:08:01,640
Arthur had been inside for 10 years,
1012
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:05,880
you know, week in, week out,
going to British National Party meetings,
1013
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:08,120
being chased down the street
by anti-fascists,
1014
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:10,440
being attacked by anti-fascists,
1015
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:12,920
going to concerts with Nazis,
1016
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:15,880
and he'd done all of this and...
1017
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:19,560
Of course, you know, he did far more
than just identify Copeland.
1018
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:22,200
He played a major role
1019
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:26,760
in the British National Party not building
on their successes in East London.
1020
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:32,200
Tyndall failed to take hold
across the country because of Arthur.
1021
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:38,040
The police say that the BNP presence does
introduce an element of racial tension...
1022
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:41,560
Oh, "The police say,
the police say, the police say."
1023
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:44,600
- So you don't believe them.
- No, we don't accept it at all.
1024
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:48,040
And you don't accept the courts and
the convictions that your members have.
1025
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:49,280
I've told you before,
1026
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:51,600
our members have no greater proportion
1027
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:54,320
of convictions
than any other party members.
1028
01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:56,200
Okay. Thanks very much.
1029
01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:59,960
Right. Get your stuff out of here
with the minimum delay.
1030
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:04,200
You people are true to form.
1031
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:09,680
You're exactly the way that, uh,
we've learned to expect, and...
1032
01:09:24,320 --> 01:09:26,040
They're trying
to drive us apart,
1033
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:28,440
and the message
we're giving them here today,
1034
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:30,480
that it's the reverse effect.
1035
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:32,400
We're coming together!
1036
01:09:32,480 --> 01:09:35,120
In a way you've never seen us before!
1037
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:38,120
Let's march to fulfill this day!
1038
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:51,680
I think that someone like Copeland,
1039
01:09:52,280 --> 01:09:56,040
someone trying to do what Copeland did,
will never succeed.
1040
01:09:59,080 --> 01:10:00,200
What gives me hope
1041
01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:04,080
is that there are still more good people
than bad people.
1042
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:07,160
And... and the haters can never win.
1043
01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:11,720
In the long... in the long term,
the haters can ne... can never win.
1044
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:16,200
And it must be... it must be horrible
to be consumed with hate.
1045
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:17,280
You know?
1046
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:22,520
Think about all the things you can't enjoy
'cause, you know, you're full of hate.
1047
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:26,360
No. Today's Friday.
I'm gonna go home and have a beer.